This blog started as a discussion area for people interested in the biblical treatment of 'origins' in the Anglican Communion; now it covers a little more!
"You are my God. My times are in your hands" Ps. 31:14-15a
28 April 2025
Natural theology: a place and a purpose
10 July 2021
Why did God create in 'days'?
5 June 2021
What's wrong with theistic-evolution?
What we need is a simple, clear statement that goes to the heart of the question.
Here it is:
Theistic evolution merges the creator with the creation to the point of indistinguishability.
The creator is taken into the creation and rather then 'theise' the creation, is engulfed and depersonalised by evolution. He becomes invisible and subject to nature, tinkering with it, not defining it.
It represents a direct contradiction of all that Genesis 1 stands for:
- creator emphatically distinguished from creation
- creator creates thoughtfully and in order
- creator completes the creation as a functioning thing.
It also represents a direct contradiction for what Genesis 3:8 teaches:
- creator seeks fellowship with his creation as a person to other persons.
15 January 2021
YouTube and theology
It's not often one finds profound theology in a YouTube video about glitter bombs, but, here it is:
Logos is acknowledged as instrumentally effective even for a person (made in the image of the great Logos) today: “if you have an idea for something and it doesn't exist, you can will it into existence”: an engineer speaking, knowing that logos is primary, techne is merely incidental, but as the scriptures tell us, with unlimited capability, techne is unnecessary!
3 October 2020
God is a good author
A bad author doesn't show his characters in play, he only tells us (e.g. "Eric was a ratbag").
A good author shows us his characters in play through dialog, action and circumstances (e.g. "As Eric mounted the stairs he noticed the edge of Gwendolen's shawl dragging on the floor in front of him. He put his foot on it.")
God is a good author.
The creation account shows us.
The folklorists think he's a bad author, and can only tell us and not show us.
They think that the creation account is about something else. And so it tells us noting about something, but something about nothing.
27 September 2020
When did the idea of 'evolution' start?
I mean the idea of Darwinain type from dot to Dot evolution.
The start is documented in the Bible!
It is Genesis 3:8. The very end of the creation account, the demonstration of it's termination.
14 September 2020
It's what I say, not what I do.
Symbolists, in their view of Genesis 1, want us to understand what God did by an account of what they claim didn't happen.
I'm still waiting to hear how their view can have any weight over here in the real world.
9 August 2020
Creator rejection syndrome
I think we fail, in this modern world dominated by metaphysical materialism, to appreciate what it means to worship God, and the relationship between us as creatures-in-his-image and God that this rests upon.
In many passages, our worship of God is predicated directly on his being creator. When creator is mentioned in the Bible, it is a pointer to Genesis 1 (and on to 3) where creator-ness is defined by demonstration. The culminating expression of this is Revelation 14:7.
When the sequence of connections between the words of creation, the events reported as directly consequential of those words, and our experience of results of those words is broken by interposing principles, processes or systems of chance, which is the materialist recourse, we break the worship relationship. Instead we defer to the gods that Isaiah castigates in 65:11, (Fortune and Destiny) because we have ignored the God who speaks, as in Exodus 31:12-17, and particularly 17.
In fact, we have displaced God as the one who created and rejected the evidence he gives us of his being creator for our preferred story that the world created itself.
Having displaced God as the direct,
involved, committed creator, we have replaced him as the one to be
worshiped because he is creator. The worshipful intent slips from the
creator to the product of the creator. God's Image-bearer turns from God
to find an 'image' in the work of the creator's hands.
5 July 2020
The dull witted scientist, and his pal, the dull witted theologan
14 September 2019
19th century
The explanations for our existence that used to be provided by religion went first, falling away from the 19th century onwards.Now, I wonder which explanation this is?
Note he is not able to say "Darwin's wonderful discovery allowed us new insights into the relation of our creator and his world" No; Darwian's project and effect was to rid the world of a creator, giving a world concept where material was primary. Not personhood.
4 October 2018
Wright and Christ
In creation this is only so if the creation's reference is tangibly real, otherwise it refers to some other thing that, if it is evolution, points away from God (e.g. Peter Singer's views on Darwin de-linking humanity and Christian tradition), but whatever it is, it is not what the Bible reports and therefore we cannot rely on the creation account to show God in fellowship with man, or man as God's image.
Therefore, there emerges pretty quickly an epistemological problem: which bits of Genesis 1-11 attach to what is real, and which do not; and how would we know.
13 April 2018
Genesis vs myth
It is nothing like myth (read Eliade's Myth of the Eternal Return), rather:
- it is personal and personally involved in the creation sequence
- it is ex nihilio and makes no implict assumption that a cosmos 'just is'.
- it has specific timing and place that is continuous with our real world experience
- it uses concrete defined time units, the ones we live by and dominate our lives
- it uses real-world categories for the results of the creative words
- its creation episodes are ecologially patent
- it communicates in terms that make sense in the real world
- it identifies the critical difference between man and animals: rationality.
If you want the three big ones, for an easy rebuttal:
- it is personal: God has a clear identity, will and purpose
- it is particular: no vague generalities or symbols
- it is real: its set here and then, continuous with our world-experience here and now.
12 July 2016
Just not credible
Some like to think that they can proclaim a gospel split on these lines, but here's what someone outside our faith thinks:
Unger's [The Religion of the Future] view is that none of the old religions is credible any longer as regards claims about the origins of the cosmos, the nature of life, the history of humanity or the workings of the world. this is because of the findings of the modern sciences concerning the nature of the cosmos, the evolutionary realities of life and the knowledge of human evolution and archaeology acquired only in the very recent past.Paul Monk, 'letters' Quadrant, June 2016.
Nothing in that quote points to the creator God, but away from him. Thus does the forlorn mixture of creation and evolution instantly collapse in the estimation of all but those who want to mix the two and deny the involvement of the creator in the concrete reality that he has made and described in early Genesis.
5 January 2015
No concrete?
Where does this leave us?
Where indeed, when on this view the act that God grounds his self-identity in has no concrete meaning in the world that he created! The world by which its meaning is established.
The proponent has to explain what it means that God is creator, when the content of the only thing he could be referring to does not refer to anything that has happened in the time and space that cirscumscribes the creation.
Thus, when God tells us he is creator, we cannot really understand what this means, particularly if evolutionary dogma is taken as the real information about ‘creation’: this has no place for God at all but turns the Bible’s world upside down placing God as a social afterthought in the minds of those who are randomly assembed dust.
Or did God guide evolution? Seeing that similar ideas were available in ancient times, it is a surprise that the writer to the Hebrews resolutely opposes them, and the ‘principles’ they imagine that operate in the world when he says: what is seen is the result of God's word, not prior visible things Heb 11:3, and the works were complete from the foundation: Heb 4:3. Together these verses tell a very different story from the retrospective evacuation of meaning from Genesis 1, which only leaves us materialism with its pagan references for what ‘creation’ means and for the dimensions of God’s identity.
8 September 2009
Grace
But I think that God's grace goes much further, and marks all his interactions with us; including the very first.
Grace suggests generosity, the unlimited deployment of Godly resources where ours or other resources are simply incapable.
God's creation as recorded in Genesis 1 is an example of, and I think, consistent with his graciousness.
The alternatives, or the popular alternative of theistic evolution is, to my mind, most ungracious, and unlike God. God is not, as I read the scriptures, in the habit of requiring secondary causes to mediate his will. Well, I specifically think of grace setting aside our works, but wonder if grace also sets aside the possibility of God making a creation as a god-free machine that goes on to make itself. This seems to fly in the face of the generosity and thoroughness of God's grace, and his not relying on second causes to bring his covenental results: Christ saves, directly, without our works; God creates, as he said, without the works of a creation as a kind of demi-urge that removes God from his creation and obscures the marks of his loving grace towards us.
1 November 2008
Comments on Sermon 2: Creation-Evolution
Dear M.
I’ve been thinking about your sermon on Sunday, but am not yet ready to set out my thoughts in detail. However, rather than delay, I'd like to give you this sketch of the topics and hope to provide a fuller discussion later.
1. The matter of Galileo’s treatment by the Church of Rome usually gets an airing when biblical origins are discussed. The airing usually addressees the converse of what happened. The problem Galileo encountered was that the church was wedded to the science of the day: Aristotelian in base, and had difficulty untangling this from what Galileo was doing. It was not a conflict between the Scripture and ‘science’ but between the church’s insufficient doctrine of creation being grafted onto Aristotle’s ideas.
The church is doing the same today, largely wed to evolutionary ideas, it seems reluctant to develop a theology of creation that sits squarely on the word of God (in terms consistent with the Bible, rather than borrowed extra-biblically, as per my previous letter) but instead seeks to read Genesis in worldly terms. A useful page on this is here.
2. If I heard you correctly, and please forgive me if I am wrong on this, you allowed that the spectrum of theological responses to Genesis 1 from historic creationism (i.e. ‘young earth creationism’, but I find that term inelegant and neglectful of the history of theology) to theistic evolution are valid.
Logically, at least three of the views have to be wrong; that is, not representative of real events; or indeed real theological meaning. If theistic evolution occurred, then the other alternatives did not.
What is important is how we come to a conclusion on what the text says; I quake in my boots when I read Kline’s wanting to adjust exegesis to the requirements of modern ‘science’. Here comes the church doing a Galileo again, I think, conforming its exegesis to the ideas of the day.
3. I would not think that there is adequate textual support for ‘apparent age’, ‘gap’, or indeed the ‘day-age’ view that you presented, let alone theistic evolution, which must step past so much of the text of Genesis 1 as to make it irrelevant. At a grab: Gn 1 tells us that creatures reproduced after their kind but evolution tells us that they don’t and that one kind has given rise to all other kinds (many people, including, for example, Pannenberg make the mistake of conflating ‘kind’ and ‘species’; but this attempts to read back into the text a modern concept that doesn't have the breadth of ‘kind’; this then invites the error of ‘fixity of species’, a notion used as a point of criticism by evolutionists, typically, but this comes by the influence of….our sponsor, Aristotle!). Hebrews 11:3 tells us that what is seen was not made out of what was visible, but evolution has it precisely opposite. I suppose it could be argued that the ‘big bang’ was putatively formed out of what is not visible, but the rest of the evolutionary scenario has it that everything was formed out of what is seen.
As an aside, the ‘apparent age’ notion comes up from time to time, but it ironically does so on the assumption that the pagan history of the cosmos is correct, negating the possible truthfulness of the word of God; for instance, it is said that the stars look as though they were placed billions of years ago because of the time light takes to travel. This makes an assumption about the absoluteness of time, which we know is not so, and that our physical understanding cannot be informed by revelation (and thus to the role of the Bible and the question of science…)
4. I think there is a lot of value in discussing the purposes of the Bible and science with respect to origins. I think I would differ with the purposes you canvassed, and for theological and philosophical reasons, however, I’ve got to think this through a little more; its along the lines of the Biblical revelation being bound to the terms and location of our experience, and this for theological reasons: it establishes the setting and terms of the covenant. If reality is ‘bent’ to do this, then the basis of the covenant is problematical and the real-ness of the relationship between God and man undone; if not ‘paganized’.
5. My thinking about the day-age idea ramifies along a number of lines. The one I find most interesting is the question of time.
First off the mechanism of creation we are told, repeatedly throughout the Bible, is that God spoke and it happened. There’s an immediacy to this by direct implication: the utterance of a word has immediate effect: one speaks, another hears; a law is commenced by proclamation, it commences, etc. I understand that the grammar of Genesis 1 is also the grammar of historical sequence, so inserting great undefined gaps between the days, or regarding the days as ‘pictures’ would be difficult, I’m told. The ‘pace’ of events in the text, and their structural configuration is congruent with the direct reading’s result: there’s a powerful rhythm of cause and effect that moves with an unremitting rationality and matter of fact-ness that also, on literary grounds, speaks of the dramatic rapid succession indicated by the cascade of ‘and it was so.’
This particularly comes together in the making of man. The sequence runs together: formed, breathed (2:7, but as the two passages go together, (refer for example to this article) I think this passage is germane); there are no logical gaps in the volition-to-outcome stream that I can see.
The critical context for consideration of the impact of ‘long durations’ is that, as far as I know, the Judaeo-Christian cosmology is the only one with short durations: all pagan cosmologies, including those that would have been known at the time in the ANE, that I’m aware of, have very long durations for earth or cosmic existence, which itself is a telling matter, I think. Now we have, in the last couple of hundred years a resurgence of the pagan-originated long ages.
Long durations have a couple of effects: they either would provide the time for chance to operate on matter; or they for practical purposes would remove the question of our maker’s identity and relationship with us from our consideration: it happened so long ago as to not matter. Time is the great ‘existential removalist’. Great periods speak of uninterest on the part of a creator who removed himself so far in time. Time is also the great existential coupler: in a relationship, we join in time, not in denial of time and temporal proximity is paramount.
In modern times, long periods serve to eliminate a creator, at least as we know him. Hutton, for instance, was driven explicitly by his deism and belief in eternal matter and cyclical history to propose what has become geological time. Nothing scientific about that! Long ages being indicative of random physical processes operating successfully is that they eliminate will, that is, the will of a person. The converse of course is that speedy action is a mark of the operation of will, given capability, and certainly if the operation is by spoken word, with its unavoidable immediacy. As a comparison, there’s an old saw amongst engineers that anyone can build a bridge, but an engineer will do it quickly and cheaply. That is, will, in the form of intelligence in this case, will do it faster than lack thereof.
I think one of the limbs of the polemic strength of the creation account (against origin fictions) is not only that it sets out what happened, in opposition to what did not happen, and thus gives us our foundation, not our myth, but its speed eliminates alternatives. Deny the speed, and alternative are invited with the possibility created of time providing a generative means when it in fact has none.
‘Long ages’ creates a dependency of our knowledge of God upon matter and how it works, rather than on God and his revelation. It allows the mistaking of the creation for the creator, and accommodates lines of thinking that deny a creator.
30 October 2008
Pannenberg on Creation
Half a century ago Karl Barth wrote in the preface to his treatment of creation in his Church Dogmatics (III/I, 1945), that there are “absolutely no scientific questions, objections or supports concerning what Scripture and the Christian Church understand to be God’s work of Creation.” Such a restriction of the theology of creation to a “retelling” of what the Bible tells us about this subject, has its price and the price to be paid here was that it could no longer be made clear, in how far the biblical faith in creation means the same world that the human race now inhabits and that is described by modern science. The affirmation that the God of the Bible created the world degenerates in to an empty formula, and the biblical God himself becomes a powerless phantom, if he can no longer be understood as the one who originates and completes the world as it is given to our experience.
It follows that the decision has to be made as to where the connection between what the examination of the creation (the 'natural' world) finds and the revelation of creation as historical event is to be made. Further in the same article, Pannenberg discusses the intersection of philosophical ideas and scientific proposals. At this juncture too there seems to be opportunity for critical analysis. Pannenberg finds the area wanting, and offers theology as the 'step in'. I'd agree (I'm sure P. would be impressed by that!!), but would urge that the ideological commitments are clarified before any such work is done.